Ahead of Pramkicker’s season at the Cremorne Theatre, QPAC from 1 – 4 July, The Fame Reporter interviewed Sarah Ann McLeod and Sarah Ogden – the creative duo behind Brisbane-based theatre collective MO Theatre.
Sadie Hasler’s hit play is a vulnerable, potty-mouthed love-letter to modern women. In a climate where a woman’s right to make decisions about her own body remains stubbornly, maddeningly relevant, PRAMKICKER plucks the discussion of reproductive rights out of the mouths of politicians and places it back where it belongs.
We caught up with the duo to chat about what drew them to the acclaimed play, why audiences connect so deeply with its themes, and the power of telling women’s stories on stage.
What first drew you to Pramkicker?
Sarah Ann McLeod:
I first came across the play after hearing playwright Sadie Hasler discussing feminine rage and anger on The Guilty Feminist podcast. Those themes immediately resonated with me, as did the sister relationship at the centre of the story.
I kept sharing the script with people, hoping someone would connect with it as strongly as I did. Then my path crossed with Sarah during a vocal training workshop.
We were talking about how there weren’t many substantial roles for female-identifying performers, so I handed her the script.
Sarah Ogden:
I read it in one night and immediately said, “We should pitch this.”
At the time, conversations around abortion laws were being reopened in Queensland and there were a lot of white male politicians weighing in on women’s lives and bodies.
The play felt like an opportunity to hear women speaking about their own experiences and choices.
Jude and Susie are both trying to create lives outside the traditional expectations of wife, mother, mortgage and career. It felt important to tell that story.
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The show has been described as a love letter to modern women. Why do you think it connects so strongly with audiences today?
Sarah Ogden:
The two sisters are both trying to forge identities outside of society’s expectations. It’s about women creating their own path and defining success and happiness for themselves.
Sarah Ann McLeod:
It’s also a celebration of female relationships.
The play explores some big themes, but it does so with humour, honesty and a lot of heart.
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Jude and Susie couldn’t be more different. What makes their relationship so compelling?
Sarah Ann McLeod:
One of the things I love most is that this isn’t a romance. It’s a story about sisterhood. We don’t often see sibling relationships explored this deeply on stage, especially between adult women.
The sisters are eight years apart and haven’t had much contact as adults.
We get to watch them reconnect, meet each other again as grown-ups and navigate what that relationship means now.
Sarah Ogden:
The relationship is built on love, even when they’re frustrating each other.
The play shows the silliness, chaos, vulnerability and intimacy that comes with sisterhood.
Audiences don’t often get to see those moments represented so honestly.
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Did the story resonate with you personally?
Sarah Ogden:
Very much so. I met my older sister when I was about eight years old after she had been adopted out and raised by another family.
Even though I knew she was my sister, our relationship didn’t really develop until we were adults. When we both became parents, we found common ground and truly got to know each other.
Having her in my life has been incredibly meaningful, so the story of Jude and Susie reconnecting as adults spoke to me on a very personal level.
The idea of creating your own version of family, rather than fitting into a traditional mould, is something I connected with deeply.
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The play tackles serious themes, but it’s also a comedy. How do you balance those elements?
Sarah Ann McLeod:
It’s funny because when people hear the themes, they don’t necessarily think “comedy”. But the show is genuinely hilarious.
It’s highly physical, there’s a lot of clowning, and yes, there may even be a re-enactment of the infamous pram-kicking incident.
Sarah Ogden:
We’ve also adapted aspects of the play for Australian audiences. The humour feels very familiar — lots of sarcasm, taking the mickey out of things and using laughter as a way to process difficult experiences.
The playwright has a background in stand-up comedy, so the characters often speak directly to the audience, which keeps everything immediate and alive.
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The production breaks the fourth wall. What can audiences expect?
Sarah Ogden:
From the moment audiences arrive, they’re invited into an anger-management workshop.
Sarah Ann McLeod:
Whether you’re attending as a graduate or a first-time participant is entirely up to you!
The audience becomes part of the experience from the beginning, and the characters speak directly to them throughout the show.
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Why do you think audiences have connected so strongly with Pramkicker?
Sarah Ann McLeod:
It’s a rollercoaster. The show is fast, sincere, foul-mouthed, fiery and fresh.
People come in expecting one thing and leave having laughed, cried and thought deeply about the themes.
Sarah Ogden:
The relationship between Jude and Susie feels real. It’s messy, funny, frustrating and loving all at once. Audiences recognise those relationships in their own lives.
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What can theatre do that other art forms can’t when it comes to exploring emotions like anger?
Sarah Ann McLeod:
It’s the immediacy. Every performance is different because every audience is different.
You’re sharing something live and unique every single night. In a world increasingly dominated by technology and AI, people are craving authentic human experiences.
Sarah Ogden:
For 75 minutes, everyone is focused on one thing. Phones are off, distractions disappear and we’re all sharing the same experience together. That’s actually quite rare these days.
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What do you hope audiences are thinking about on the drive home?
Sarah Ogden:
I hope they’re reflecting on the choices they’ve made in their lives, the influences that shaped those choices and how much agency they’ve had over them.
Sarah Ann McLeod:
I also hope they’re thinking about the strength of female relationships. The power of those connections is something special, and it’s at the heart of this story.
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Which character are you most like in real life?
Sarah Ann McLeod:
When we first started developing the show, we actually thought we’d be playing the opposite roles.
I was convinced I was more like Susie, and Sarah thought she was more like Jude. Then we read the script together and realised we’d completely got it wrong!
Over time, I’ve found pieces of myself in both women.
Sarah Ogden:
That’s true for me too.
Coming to the play as a mother, I’ve connected with it from a different perspective.
In some ways, the characters represent different life paths and choices that many women think about.
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In one word, how would you describe each other?
Sarah Ann McLeod:
Tenacious. Sarah has an incredible commitment to excellence and making sure the work reaches the highest possible standard.
Sarah Ogden:
For Sarah, I’d borrow a line from the play itself: bravery, strength and life.
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Is there anything exciting on the horizon for Pramkicker?
Sarah Ann McLeod:
One of the most exciting things is that Sadie Hasler has been incredibly supportive of this production.
Sarah Ogden:
In fact, she’s been talking about the possibility of writing a sequel.
Seeing this production has inspired Sadie to think about what Jude and Susie might be doing now, so watch this space.
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What’s the most Queensland thing about this production?
Sarah Ann McLeod:
The humour.
Sarah Ogden:
And probably the language! There’s a distinctly Australian and Queensland flavour to the comedy.
It’s dark, cheeky and unapologetically honest.
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Finally, what’s your favourite thing about making theatre?
Sarah Ann McLeod:
The energy. There’s simply nothing else like it. I love telling stories and sharing them with audiences.
Sarah Ogden:
Connecting with audiences is incredible, but so is the team you build around a production.
The community that comes together to create theatre is something really special, and working with this group of artists has been an absolute joy.
Pramkicker plays at the Queensland Performing Arts Centre from 1-4 July delivering a funny, fierce and heartfelt exploration of sisterhood, choice, anger and the families we create for ourselves.
TICKETS
Playing from 1 – 4 July
Cremorne Theatre, QPAC
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